Homework
Read Pages 78-103
After reading tonight's assignment, respond to the following questions with a BLOG COMMENT (multiple if you'd like, but you can choose only one):
1) Explain Harding's Analogy of the men being rabbits.
2) Harding states that no one has ever dared to tell the truth before McMurphy; what is the truth McMurphy tells the men?
3) Explain Pecking Party as used to describe the Therapeutic Community.
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Harding tells McMurphy of the analogy of the rabbit and the wolf. The rabbit recognizes that the wolf is the stronger and more powerful one. When the rabbit is in the presence of the wolf, they go into their burrows and act timid. He compares this to the patients with Nurse Ratched. Everytime Nurse Ratched comes around they act shy, show fear, and recognize her as the "wolf" or "big man on campus."
McMurphy uses the phrase "pecking party" to describe what went on at the group meeting. During his first meeting, the group talked about Harding and his problems with his wife. In McMurphy's eyes, all the other patients seemed to "attack" Harding with questions and remarks/peck at every little problem he had, which left Harding insinuating that he was not man enough to satisfy his wife and such.
Even though the wolf is stronger than the rabbit, the rabbits still out number the wolf. With this advantage, McMurphy can manupilate the system to go against Nurse Ratched like he did during group therapy.
I think Sapphire has a really good point that I wouldn't have thought of. McMurphy's bet is to try to overpower and control Ratched and sort of turn the tables on her, and it would be even better for him if he got everyone in the hospital to go against her as well, not just by himself. I think that McMurphy doesn't symbolize a rabbit, but maybe a whale? aha.
i agree with maura.
mcmurphy is like the farest thing from a rabbit. he overpowers almost everyone and isnt really shy, fore example: when he first comes he is loud and wont take a shower. then he really speaks out about the group therapy. so he is like a whale, or a shark [like how everyone is impressed but a scared at the same time.]
i agree with Maura, McMurphy is the one guy that would be able to change the system. Maybe his bet will work and he will be able to beat Nurse Ratched and the rabbits will be set free. When Sapphire said "McMurphy can manupilate the system to go against Nurse Ratched like he did during group therapy." McMurphy is what the hospital needs to break free from the "cuckoos nest" get the others to realize that they must go against the hospital.
one question why doesn't Pete ever talk out again. In the book it said he never tried anything like that again. He actually was the only one to rebel!
Response to Catherine: to answer your question, maybe the reason why he hasn't spoken out again is because they "treated" him like they did to totally brain wash the acutes into chronics.
In response to Josh K: maybe the Big Nurse did something or said something to Pete that the Chief just doesnt know about.
The second question asks what the truth is that McMurphy tells. From what I got from the story, is that the truth is one of hope. He told everyone that there is hope to get better and to get out of the hospital. They don't have to stay there forever.
Response to Natalie: I agree that McMurphy is trying to give them all hope and he's trying to convince them to go against the system. He's telling them that they can get out of the institute and they won't always be there.
McMurphy has told the men that they do not have to live like this anymore. That they can some how fight back, or resist. Either way I don't give a rats a..., sorry what I really meant was that either way, it is better to live without fear, or resentment, rather than to live like a rabbit which they were previously explaing to be. McMurphy is really telling every man what he wants to hear but previously was not able to realize himself, or more like come to grips with.
In response to Saphire, indeed the rabbits do out number the wolf, but merely in a democratic way, she does still retain a lot of tyrannical powers, that either must be relinquished with a ideological defeat with McMurphy or be defeated forcefully by an uprising. However, with the current state all these men are in I think they are going to find it quite difficult meantally and possibley even physically to some how battle with the nurse and the rest of the community. But one of the benefits they do have is that they have the doctor on their side. Which I found was pretty cool within tonight's reading.
I just wanted to point out that watching the movie does help with picturing the story in your head. Alot of the scenes, especially the ones when their in Therapeutic Circle or meeting are quite visible if one watches the film. It of course is not a substitute but it is just pretty cool to see how Randle acts and how he laughs and talks.
AS a response to question #2, I believe the truth that McMurphy shows the patients is that the general meeting that the patients have is not for the benefit for themselves but for the workers.
However, as a side note, near the end in the second to last chapter of today's homework, McMurphy and Dr. Spivey turn the general meetings upside down and make the meetings for their own benefits by their suggestion of a carnival and a room without music.
As far as the patients being the rabbits and McMurphy being a wolf, the patients are able to see that he is the wolf among the patients. We find out that there's no way for any patient to ever win b/c Ratched's lose doesn't hurt her but she gains off your losses. He shows more examples of being free-minded by singing in the shower and giving smart remarks when possible
As a response to question 1
The bunny really shows the people in the ward because they are just following the big nurse because they dont want to get killed. They are just like slaves that wouldn't stand for themselves because they don't want to be sallowed by the wolf (The Big Nurse).
just to add to everyone's responses to the analogy with the Rabbit and the wolf.
i feel like everyone who responded to this is right on Target. pretty much all the people within the ward are the rabbits- except the ones with authority are the wolves. and the reason Why they're within the ward is because they can't accept the role that they have been given. so the wolves must train, teach, guide, whatever to 'set them Straight'.
* random question: what's the point of stressing the importance of expression sexuality? is it just because sex is normal- but then again they're in a mental ward?
As a response to hiccup's comment.
Sex is not normal for those in the ward because they either do not understand it because of their illness or because some (like McMurphy) are in the ward on rape charges, which means that they now view any sex as a crime.
Harding tells McMurphy that all the patients are rabbits,and the nurse is a wolf. the rabbits are weak and inexperienced. they need to be fixed and taught by the nurse if they want to be accepeted in the society. the rabbits cannot adapt to their surrounding and need the guidence of the wolf. they need to tell the nurse anything flaws they feel they have--and encourages others to point out problems so they can see how different they are and be fixed.
I totally agree with what deegz is saying. McMurphy is becoming the wolf because he shows no fear and acts as a leader over the other patients. And as learned in tonight's reading, McMurphy showed that he was more powerful than Ratched because he made her lose her composure to a (supposedly) mentally ill patient. Now that McMurphy has become the wolf, the patients no longer live in fear because the wolf is their friend.
However, as Phaedrus once said, "An alliance with the powerful is never to be trusted." (TOTALLY RANDOM)
I definately agree with Sapphire. Its cool how she point that out. I think McMurphy is a spark of this book. He's really out there and tries to change the "evil nurse's policy."
A thought... Why wouldn't the black men stop McMurphy when he was singing and making a fuss in the morning?
Do they also realized that McMurphy is different
question 2- mcmurphy tells the men that there are no rabbits and wolfs. all the theories and strategies that the nurse uses to help "fix" them are stupid. there is nothing wrong with most of the men either-- from mcmurphy's point of view. he tells them that they should not look up to or fear the nurse--she isnt as powerful as she seems. the patients start to realize that the hospitals theories are messed up and make no sense.
I agree with Natalie Beutler and Erin. I think that McMurphy is mainly trying to rile up the patients into thinking that they don't always have to listen to what Nurse Ratched and the orderlies say. He's a natural leader and is trying to convince them through his actions that they can stand up against the ward. For example, he keeps singing over the songs on the radio to prove that he isn't intimated by the the people in charge. The rest of the patients notice his swagger and start questioning authority as well, such as when Pete was screaming in the previous chapter.
mcmurphy's comparison of the theropy group meeting to a pecking party actually made a lot of sense. in the meeting, the nurse encourages the patients to open up and admit bad things that they have done. she also tells them to point out flaws in others, to help them realize their problems and help "fix" them. however, there is a drastic oppostite effect on the patients. once the nurse convinces a patient to talk, the entire group chimes in and insults the person through comments and questions--like a group of chickens eating away at the one chick with a wound. they do not realize the damage they are doing during the meeting, but afterwards, the patients feel ashamed and bad for what they did to their friend.
So a "pecking party" is just a group meeting that has the everyone complains about others just to make everything easier on them and to give them a reason to get back are someone. If that made sense?!?!
Harding told McMurphy of how the patients were rabbits and the staff or Nurse Ratched was the wolf. Out of the two, the wolf is obviously stonger and the rabbits know that. They can't survive by themselves so they need to pull together to oover power Nurse Ratched at her own game.
What Harding means about the rabbit and the wolf is that although the rabbits are much weaker in the presence of the wolf. The rabbits still have the advantage in numbers and although Nurse Ratched has "Control" over them she still can't keep all them in line if they decide to all at once rebel.
Respone to G-Money's comment.
It's possible that Nurse Ratched invented these "picking parties" to create problems amongst the patients. The patients can't band together against Ratched because they have their own problems with other patients. Basically, Ratched keeps control and order by turning patients against each other.
What is being said about the "Pecking Party" referrs to Mcmurphy's interpretation of what happened at the group meeting. All of the patients comment on each others thoughts and feelings, usually in a negative way, resulting in the patient feeling inferior to everyone else. Nurse Ratched uses this as a strategy to keep the patients scared.
When McMurphy plays cards with the other patients, do you think he is letting them win sometimes because he is nice or is it because he wants to keep them in the game to hustle them more?
Response to Chief: I think that hes hustling them a bit if they end up playing for money, but he also wants people that will back him up if he ever goes up against the ward, so I think hes either in it for the money or protection. So that if they respect him he could get them to do his dirty work.
Harding's comment about how everyone in the ward is a rabbit but Nurse Ratched is the wolf is referring to how almost everyone in the ward is afraid or at least aware of what the nurse can do to them. This fear is what keeps them in line and gives the nurse most of her power over the patients, just as the rabbits are afraid of the wolf and respect him.
When McMurphy talks about how the group meeting turned into a "pecking party" he was talking about how everyone ganged up on Harding and pointed out continuously how he can't satisfy his wife. While this is going on the Big Nurse sits back because she started this and is enjoying this cruel treatment. This is her way of staying dominant over the patients.
what about the dream that the chief had that ended up becomming somewhat true? with how Blastic actually died that night? The dream was kind of confusing, but the chief always seems to describe the hospital as if it's some sort of mechanical place or a workshop... almost like the patients in the hospital are just objects and the faculty (nurses, doctors, etc) can do whatever they want to them to experiment on them or try to fix them.
I thought that it was really weird that the Chief dreamt that Old Blastic was being cut open and what not and he was dead in the morning. Is Chief schizophrenic? We just learned about schizophrenia in psych and he shows some of the symptons, like hallucinations and delusional thoughts.
In response to yleinah, yes the chief does hold some hallucinatory tendencies but he is also a native american. As we have learned earlier in the year, native americans have told down stories through the generations, orally, for years. A lot of these were characterized by hyperboles and what seemed to be exagerations, while at the same time trying to get a point across. What I am just trying to say is that chief is able to tell a story in a totally different way than someone else.
As a response to Cheif's post, McMurphy is most likely trying to hustle the other patients during the card games. At the same time, however, I believe that McMurphy is making his use of gambling for the benefit of the patients. For example, McMurphy placed a bet that he would be able to move the control panel by himself, which is impossible to do by just one person, in order to show the other patients that they must at least try.
I don't really understand the part with Old Blastic... Can anyone summarize his purpose in the story? I'm confused about his death and what significance does it bring to the story?
In response to Sara Jess: The whole point of the dream is that it depicts the ward as a somewhat mechanical industry. It reminded me of pigs being slaughtered because they talk about how they were hung on chains and dragged down the line; when they finally got to the end they were sliced. Bromden was thinking that there would be blood everywhere and innards but nothing but rust and machinary parts came out. The ward is essentially talking the life right out of the patients.
I think that Harding compares the men to the rabbits for good reasons. I think that one is because the rabbits recognize the wolf as being something stronger than them and something that they need to run from. This is how the patients act towards Nurse Ratched. When the nurse comes around or "the wolf" the patients, or "the rabbits" try and hide or go make themselves occupied with something to do so they don't have to be taken and get "worked" on. When the nurse comes around, the patients scurry just like rabbits do, making Harding's analogy of the men being compared to rabbits make sense.
I think that when McMurphy uses the term "packing party" when describing the group meeting because everyone in the meeting was because everyone was just talking bad about each other. This shows how much "power" that teh nurse actually has over the patients because when the patients are out of the meeting, they all realized what they did wasn't right, and they feel bad for talking that way about each other. I think that the nurse wants tot turn the patients against each other so that they have no one to run to when things get tough.
McMurphy describes a pecking party as something he used to see happen on the farm with the chickens. if one of the chickens had some blood on it, the rest of the shickens would "peck it to death" and then when they saw that anoteh rone of the chickens got some on it, theyd do it all over again. eventually they all ended up dead. this is a paralell to the therapeutic meetings because each of the patients try to tattle on eachother and then team up against eachother, just as the other chickens team up against the chicken with blood on it.
i agree with woah its jordan: i think the nurse's goal is to try to tell the patients that they are helping the others by explaining their flaws. this gives more power to nurse because it allows the patients to open up to her and listen to what she is saying--she wants to remain in power and be able to control the patients' actions and logic
I agree with Stephanie, the nurce doesn't realy care about what the patients need, she just wants to contol all of their actions. The nurce needs to be in control and she uses the lives of the patients to get what she wants.
What point is McMurphy trying to make when he tries to move the control panel in the tub room?
Response to sara jess:
deegz basically summarized everything about the dream. Just remember that Blastic did in fact die that night, but not in the way that Bromden saw in his dream.
Regarding Chief's comment...
I think McMurphy is tyring to show the patients that their attitudes need to be more agressive, the "You never know unless you try" ordeal. He's just trying to stand up for what he believes in and hopes that his leadership will convince others to do the same. Plus, he has a really big ego, so when one of the patients said that he wouldn't be able to lift the concrete panel, he knew he couldn't walk away without atleast trying.
In response to hillary... I agree that McMurphy is trying to somewhat help everyone, make them stand up for themselves more. He kind of is becoming their leader. But than again is McMurphy there to help them or to con them?
to response to Jessica
I KNow Mcmurphy is leader know you can defiently tell and i think he isn't a negative effect to them at all. I think the Ward is the Combine that is not their home but only home think that is theirs because they havent seen the outside.
"you are only by the speaker sounding, overhead like a bell buoy clanging in the fog. When I can see, the guys are usually moving around as unconcerned as though they didn't notice so much as a mist in the air. I believe the fog affects their memory some way it doesn't affect mine. Even McMurphy doesn't seem to know he's been fogged in" (Kesey 104).
Is this true that McMurphy and Chief can't be affected by the fog? Why?
to response to mitzy25
The nurse is more than control, she is playing a game with McMurphy. They are both trying make each other insane and they but have of the sense of not giving up.
Response to gdog's comment:
Do you really think that Ratched is trying to make McMurphy insane? Her actions only help her maintain control, not to disturb the patients even more.
to add to what hillary said regarding chief's question...I think that the point that McMurphy is trying to make is that the other patients need to start manning up and realize that they need to over power Nurse Ratched and say what they think about her.
i agree with Yleinah regarding Hillarys comment: The men do need to man up a realize they can over power the nurse she is a woman and there are more of them then her. They could fight back easy.
My question is.....what if they fight back and say what they think about the nurse, she has the power to just hurt them even more. So are they better off keeping quite?
In response to idontsleepenough4this' question, my thoughts are the same as others. I believe that the men should fight back. Before McMurphy came to the mental hospital, I would have thought that the patients were better off keeping quiet, because the patients did not have a good leader. Because McMurphy shows no fear, has good leadership, and is bold, I believe that the men should fight back. The men have McMurphy to guide them through any troubles they would encounter with the nurse.
I would like to add to the fact that I am glad that the patients (only the Acutes and Chief, I believe) have become "nomal." At the end of Part I, Chief says that the men watching the world series while the big nurse is screaming at them would seem like maniacs from another person's perspective, implying (from my opinion) that the patients are normal, although they may be acting weird at the time.
yeah.. i agree with david: i was glad that the patients finally rebeled against the nurse. mcmurphy has already rebelled, but the tv scene is the first time the patients are willingly rebeling againtst her. i think it is better for them to rebel becuase nurse will realize that 20 patients can over power her-- its better for the patients to try something different because there current actions have not improved any conditions yet..
i would have to agree with stephanie because 20 against 1 is not very good for the nurse but i think why they didnt rebel in the first place if probaly the fact that there was no one like McMurphy to give them a idea or they just didnt have a leader
I am appauled by Nurse Ratched and how she let's these "pecking parties" happen only for her satisfaction. Why would she enjoy such things like this?
In response to Sara Jess, I think Nurse Ratched uses the "pecking parties" as a form of breaking down patients and isolating them from one another. I think she knows that she is outnumbered and she uses this method to seperate the patients form one another because all of the patients avoid the target after the meeting is over because they are ashamed of what they have done to their friend.
What I got from the reading was Kesey showing how much of a leader McMurphy really is despite Ratched wanting to kick him out. Chief talks about how the fog is thicker than ever and what he sees is McMurphy lifting the other patients' hands out from the smoke and finally being able to escape the ward and be free...
In what Juon said about them not having a leader, Chief said earlier that the patients were afaid to be sent to the Shock Shop but McMurphy hasn't been sent there yet so he just has the rebellious attitude and the patients are starting to follow
The men are like rabbits because they accept their fate as being game to the nurse, who symbolizes a wolf.
In response to deegz44, I have to agree. It seems like because McMurphy has proved to the Acutes that he can overpower Nurse Ratched, the Acutes began having more faith in him. Before, the patients did not rebel against Nurse Ratched because that would send them to the Shock Shop. Now, the patients seem to realize that under McMurphy's lead, the Acutes have the ability to avoid the Shock Shop and express their emotions at the same time.
In tonight's reading, I was disappointed in McMurphy's character. He seemed to be making progress by convincing the rest of the patients to stand up for what they believe in at the ward, and then after talking to the lifeguard, he suddenly changed his principles. When Cheswick stood up during one of the group meetings and demanded a change, McMurphy hung him up to dry by not backing him up, the same sort of thing that he yelled at the other patients for a few days ago, when they didn't vote for the television change. It seemed very hypocritical and it lessened my like for his character.
In response to hillary, I would have to disagree McMurphy seemed to only do that because he had come to a very gripping reality, that he may be in there for years if he is not carefull. I totally sympathize with him, but I would also like to agree with the fact that perhaps him staying in there is going to do some good for a change. The people in the hospital need a leader, for now, and up to that moment they had one.
Regarding Hillar's Comment... Regarding Chief's, Randle trying to lift the control panel was for the sole purpose of showing the other patients that he was willing to put some effort into their resistance, and against seemingly impossible odds. The control panel is refering to them defeating the Nurse, someone the patients think is pretty much impossible to beat. And possibley one could also argue the same thing for trying to smash through the "unbreakable" glass window.
In responce to Chief, Rached is not trying to make McMurphy insane, but she wants control over him and she will do so using whatever way she can. Rached is power hungry and she will do anything to get power.
In response to Mitzy25 not only does the big nurse want control over RPM but she also is starting to fear that becuase of him she is losing conrtol of the ward and now she has to establish her dominance again to regain the mentality that she is in control.
In response to Teschner's ? what truth is RPM telling the men, I believe that RPM is showing all of the patients a world that they havent seen in a long time. Most of the Acutes who have been in the ward for awhile are so used to the daily routine that the big nurse puts them through and now that an outsider has come in (RPM) he is opening their eyes to what the real world they lived in used to be like.
Ratched is just weakening McMurphy's dominance step by step, and degrading him to the point of insanity..prehaps? She knows he isn't crazy, and as a kind of pay back, she is trying to punish him and make him realize that he shouldn't be playing a game with the hospital. She is taking everything he has used against his victims in the past and bringing it back as a sort of mind game. She is mind screwing him into insanity. I feel as though McMurphy is going to get it bad and then who will the patients have to look up to then?
It's all a damn tragedy.
I agree with What the Dickens, Rached is just trying to deteriorate McMurphy little by little until there is nothing left, she wants him to suffer because he does not conform. She wants him to be like everyone else and will to anything to make that happen.
I feel that the "pecking party" really states what the group therapy is, as everyone just picks at the others weaknesses in an environment made for everyone to open up. If it is at all therapeutic it is only for Big Nurse who feeds off of the control she has over the ward.
As to harding's explanation of the rabbits idea, they're all like rabbits feeble and weak. They are never predators such as the wolf, Big Nurse, who has what it takes to be vicious and survive in the real world. Too inferior, they are left rather to pick at eachother because they lack what it takes to dominate the wolf. The only way to overcome the wolf is through unity but the wolf, Big Nurse, makes sure that doesnt happen by keeping them low and petty.
For the second question i totally agree with the explanation of the truth. There is hope to get out but the nurse eats away at everyone's self-esteem through manipulation. Even for those that are there voluntarily they have been so manipulated that now they dont even feel there is a hope of getting out of the ward much less a life for them outside.
In response to alexbott's comment about giving them hope and to stop living like rabbits. Mcmurphy tells them all exactly what they want to hear whether they see it as a possibility or not. But the truth of the matter seems to be that they feel like they have no chance from years of Big Nurses manipulation and punishment through therapeutic work.
In response to stephanie about the Nurses use of the log, i agree. Hiding behind such powerful words as therapeutic and helping she manipulates everyone into indirectly thinking tattling secrets to her is for their benefit when it is truely just and add on to the all seeing eye of Big NUrse. Not only does she say it is helpful to their treatment but gives an incentive to do it because you get something like an extra privilege in the ward.
The ward is a great setting in the story because it's where everyone falls apart and eventually realizes who they really are, weather they like it or not. The pecking party is just another tool the nurse uses to keep the patients alive so she can kill them slowly herself. Why else does she sit calmly and observe with her porcelain smile? Tis a grand finale.
Mc Murphy seems as though he isn't at all like a rabbit like everyone else in the ward. In my mind Isee him as a wolf along with all the other aids and nurses. and because he is a wolf among all the rabbits it seems only logical that he be the person who leads them so salvation.
I agree with Stevsie that McMurphy seems more like a Wolf. When Harding was describing it he said the patients or "bunnies" were run by Wolves and it seems like alot of the patients look up to McMurphy and follow after him. They listen to what he tells them to do so he is more in control than any of the rest of them.
I don't really understand who Old Blastic is in this novel.
I think that McMurphy's bet is a way to show the patients that things need to start changing. He makes the first step to show that they shouldn't be that afraid of the nurse like they are.
Nurse Ratched uses the patients fear against them. They don't realize this but McMurphy wants to stop her little game. I think that the bet will also bring the patients closer together and realize, that with all of them, they can over power the nurse.
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